In this Masterclass, Chris McMartin sits down with Julie Cole, co-Founder of Mabel’s Labels and author of the book Managing the Mother’s Load, to discuss starting a business and the key to maintaining its success.
Key Topics in this Conversation:
- The importance of setting boundaries and how it plays a crucial role in balancing work and family life, maintaining a positive lifestyle and preventing burnout.
- Julie’s expert advice on discovering your ideal product and niche, and the importance of understanding and pursuing market segmentation.
- Julie’s most valuable lessons when it comes to launching products and tips for hiring the right employees to build a successful business.
Tune in to this episode to hear Julie’s insights on starting and growing a business, productivity tips, and creating a fulfilling, positive lifestyle!
McMartin, Chris 0:23
There we go.
There we go.
Fantastic.
I see everybody flooding in.
This is wonderful.
So we'll just give it a second for all the dings and beeps and get everybody in and I'll just ask that everybody, please mute yourself during the conversation.
That's much appreciated.
Thank you so much.
Wonderful.
We'll start off with our privacy notes.
So by accepting this meaning, you consent to be recorded for the Scotiabank Women Initiative Master class, the Scotiabank Women Initiative Masterclass team will have access to the recording.
Please do not share any personal identifiable information, bank, internal or confidential information during the call or via the chat window.
Alright, so with that, I'm going to kick us off on behalf of the Scotiabank Women Initiative, Julie Cole from Mabel's Labels.
I am so excited about this conversation.
This is going to be fantastic, Julie, I have had the pleasure to meet you at several different events since we run in a lot of the same circles with a lot of the same, amazing women entrepreneurs, so I I'm thrilled to have this conversation with you, and I can't thank you enough for joining me today.
Julie Cole 1:39
Such a pleasure to be here and so excited to chat with you and have everyone involved in the Women's Initiative here.
McMartin, Chris 1:48
Awesome.
Thank you, Julie.
Julie Cole 1:49
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 1:49
I always say that, you know, I could stumble through doing the best I could with an introduction to give a brief, you know, bio on you.
But I think you can introduce yourself better than anyone else, so I'm going to ask if you can give us a quick little snapshot of Julie Cole.
Julie Cole 1:58
Yeah.
OK, right.
OK.
So it's always actually a little awkward doing this.
So yes, I'm Julie Cole.
I'm the Co-founder of Mabel's Labels, which started 21 years ago.
I'm also an author.
I just wrote a book called; what did I call my book? Managing the Mother Load.
No, that's what my talk is always.
It's like a mother birthing businesses babies, and a life beyond labels.
I do talk a lot about balancing all of this stuff, and it was great to hit bestseller.
I do a lot of media.
I have six children.
So you know it's a busy whole life.
McMartin, Chris 2:43
I mean, you know, just this, I love that you say I did this like it was nothing.
I mean, I've heard you speak so many times.
My favorite thing, and I see some comments in the chat, and I have to agree.
My favorite thing about you, Julie, is how relatable you are.
How real you are.
Julie Cole 2:59
Ah.
McMartin, Chris 3:01
How authentic you are and how you just speak your truth and it's so relatable for all of us moms out there for entrepreneurs out there for women out there.
So with that, let us jump right into it and let's start on the topic that you know best.
Julie Cole 3:15
OK.
McMartin, Chris 3:18
How do you go about balancing being a mom of 6 and 21 years and this massive business?
Julie Cole 3:29
Right.
There's a lot of things I'm going to talk for quite a few minutes here, if that's OK.
McMartin, Chris 3:35
Let's do it, yeah.
Julie Cole 3:36
OK, so the first thing I'm going to say is that, I say no a lot.
McMartin, Chris 3:43
Hmm.
Julie Cole 3:43
I say no a lot to a lot of people.
And first of all, I say no to my children a lot.
And let me give some examples.
And you know, I may have told you this story before, but like, if my kids came home and said mom, I mean, you know, two dozen cupcakes tomorrow for school, I would laugh and laugh and be like, are you new here?
Have we just met?
McMartin, Chris 4:10
Yeah.
Julie Cole 4:11
Never gonna happen.
Never going to happen.
McMartin, Chris 4:13
Yeah.
Julie Cole 4:16
So I say no around those things.
I don't.
I have to be very productive, so I don't think my kids know that their lack of planning doesn't constitute my emergency.
McMartin, Chris 4:27
Oh, I love that.
Julie Cole 4:27
So yeah, and like that applies that work to that applies everywhere.
Your lack of planning, like it doesn't fall on me because you are not organized right?
So for my kids, like I do have to get a lot done in a day.
So I do things I'm a big fan of natural consequences.
So if, for instance, my kid forgot their lunch, I wouldn't bring it to them.
And it's not, it's it's not punishment, you know.
And I I can tell you none of my kids are starving.
None of them have had scurvy.
Yet they can always find a brother with an apple or go hungry for the day.
Again, they'll be OK, but if I did do these things and then I would be spending my days like dropping off lunches, dropping off gym clothes, forgotten projects, and I can assure you that they only forget their lunch once.
McMartin, Chris 5:00
Yeah.
Yes.
Julie Cole 5:13
And again,
It's not punishment, right?
It's not punishment, but I, but I will say look, ah, bud, that really sucks sorry that happened to you.
Let's figure out a strategy that's going to help you remember.
So let's do a morning checklist to make sure once you put your lunch in your bag, you can check this out.
So I'll help them create strategies that to be more independent, but I'm not gonna be their savior again because I need to get stuff done.
McMartin, Chris 5:30
Yes.
Julie Cole 5:37
And you know, I joke that the secretary has always have this table beside them, where parents drop off the gym clothes and the whatever, and I call it the enable table.
And I don't think it should be there.
McMartin, Chris 5:46
The enable table, I love that.
I love that.
Julie Cole 5:49
Like no enable table, right.
Because guess what?
McMartin, Chris 5:52
Yeah.
Julie Cole 5:52
For my kids, you forget your gym clothes.
You sit on the bench.
You, you know, you forget your homework.
McMartin, Chris 5:55
Yeah.
Julie Cole 5:58
Maybe.
Ohh, can somebody mute, get everybody mute? Yeah.
Is anyone else hearing that?
McMartin, Chris 6:04
Yeah.
Julie Cole 6:05
OK.
Can we can actually?
McMartin, Chris 6:07
There we go.
I think we got it.
Julie Cole 6:07
OK. Yeah, we can do it from our end too right.
So yeah, if they forget their gym clothes, they sit on the bench.
If they forget their school project, maybe they get B instead of an A.
McMartin, Chris 6:14
Yeah.
Julie Cole 6:16
If they forget their homework, they stay in at recess and do it.
That's OK.
You know what?
That's what happens when we forget our things.
So I find that by saying no it home, that they are a little bit more responsible and they're a little bit more inclined to respect my time because I respect my time.
McMartin, Chris 6:29
Hmm.
Julie Cole 6:37
So a lot of the times my No’s look more like just boundaries, you know, and there's things that work too, you know?
McMartin, Chris 6:38
Yes.
Yep.
Julie Cole 6:45
I try to avoid having.
Well, you would call it drive by, you know, when you're working hard and like somebody pops their head and they're like, hey, can I pick your brain?
So you solve that problem for them and then you put your head down again.
It takes 10 minutes to get back where you are and then somebody comes in.
McMartin, Chris 6:58
Yep, Yep.
Julie Cole 7:01
So again, I think it's OK to have a known drive-by policy, and when you're working away, you know, just turn your notifications off and set a culture where it's like, I'm happy to talk to you.
But shoot me an email and then when I put my notifications back on, you know, I can say that'd be great pop down at 3:30 and we'll sort that out.
And I'll tell you often by then they've sorted it out themselves.
McMartin, Chris 7:20
Yes.
Julie Cole 7:21
Again, your lack of planning doesn't constitute my emergency, right?
McMartin, Chris 7:25
Yeah.
Julie Cole 7:27
So I do and to events like.
Honestly, Chris, like I get invited.
McMartin, Chris 7:31
Ah yeah. Talk to me.
Julie Cole 7:32
I know you do too.
McMartin, Chris 7:33
Because you must get invite after invite after invite.
Julie Cole 7:34
I know.
McMartin, Chris 7:36
So yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 7:36
I do like I do and you do too.
And you know what, part of our jobs is getting out there and being visible?
McMartin, Chris 7:41
Yep, Yep.
Julie Cole 7:42
Because being visible creates credibility which creates loyalty, which creates great business.
It's good for the bottom line and hey, people like us find out a lot of fun too, right? But.
McMartin, Chris 7:47
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 7:52
You know the invites do come in, and I actually have a 10-point checklist before I say yes to an event.
And you know, for me, it's gotta be things like, am I getting in front of people that will, you know, be customers of my business?
Am I getting in front of people who will talk to their communities about my business?
Am I getting in front of people who are going, you know, so all of these things, think about like I really have to be selective because you could be going to things all the time.
McMartin, Chris 8:15
Yes.
Yeah.
Julie Cole 8:21
And as you know, Chris, like we are trying to manage, you know it's six kids in hockey at one point, right?
Like, you, you can't.
McMartin, Chris 8:25
Yeah.
Julie Cole 8:27
You can't do all the things. So what?
McMartin, Chris 8:29
Yeah.
Julie Cole 8:29
So I think like just putting those boundaries and saying no and the other thing I think we do is that we all have these great to-do lists, and I would challenge you to write a do-not do list, like what are you doing?
What are you doing that you shouldn't be doing?
You know, like is it time to get that virtual assistant?
Is it time to say, right?
McMartin, Chris 8:46
Ohh I love that.
Julie Cole 8:48
Like is it time to say, you know what one of mine is?
I don't unstack the dishwasher.
McMartin, Chris 8:53
OK. Yeah.
Julie Cole 8:53
You know what?
I've got people who can do that.
The kids can do that.
I've got a little guy with a really unique learning profile.
McMartin, Chris 8:57
Yeah.
Julie Cole 9:00
His executive functioning is, so I'm better to sit down with him in the evening and work on strategies around his executive functioning, go through his school stuff.
Where one of the other kids can unstack the dishwasher.
McMartin, Chris 9:04
Yeah.
Julie Cole 9:11
I really value where my time is best spent, and unstacking the dishwasher is not one of them. Plus I think it's good for kids to have chores and I think they have to all contribute.
McMartin, Chris 9:14
Yeah.
Yes. Yeah.
Julie Cole 9:21
You know, I mean, all these moms are run ragged because we are still carrying the load.
We know that home still aren't being run democratically, so I think it's time to have conversations with like partners and spouses and children about that.
McMartin, Chris 9:29
Yeah.
I love that.
I love that you have changed saying no into life lessons like, especially when it comes to your family, I love that.
Julie Cole 9:41
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 9:45
It's not just no.
It's here's how we can prevent this from happening next time.
Here's how you can manage this.
Julie Cole 9:50
Yep.
McMartin, Chris 9:52
Here's how you can be the leader of your life.
Julie Cole 9:55
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is important.
McMartin, Chris 9:55
I love that.
I love that.
I think it's important.
Julie Cole 10:00
And you know, I think, you know, one of the other things is like, I do think that today's problem solvers are tomorrow's leaders.
So I don't really want to solve all my problems for the kids, like I want them to get the practice now because again, it starts creating independence now that will carry on later. I don't want to be solving all the problems in my 30-year-olds and whatnot, and this is why it's kind of funny.
McMartin, Chris 10:20
Yeah.
Julie Cole 10:24
You guys are going to think, I mean, I'm really not, but I don't give my kids cell phones because I don't want them phoning me.
McMartin, Chris 10:30
Ohh.
That's the best.
I love that, yeah.
Julie Cole 10:34
Because like I look, I'm just going to be honest with you here.
Like people are like ohh yeah, but what in an emergency?
Believe me, if there's an emergency they fought, you get found like there are school secretaries and.
McMartin, Chris 10:44
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 10:46
And the thing is like I don't want them to like fall off their bike and phone me.
You know, I don't want.
I want them to be like either knock on the neighbor's door, throw brother over the shoulder and carry him home, and then go back and get the bike because I know what these emergencies usually are.
McMartin, Chris 10:54
Yep.
Julie Cole 10:59
They're like, hey, can I stay at the mall for next 10 minutes or I'm still having fun with Bobby's house can I come home for dinner late?
Those to me aren't emergencies.
We made a plan.
McMartin, Chris 11:07
Yeah.
Julie Cole 11:08
We just stick to the plan.
If you can't find a way to reach, that's just how it is. Again.
McMartin, Chris 11:09
Yeah.
Julie Cole 11:12
Now of course they get phones when they're in high school and they can afford them and that sort of thing.
McMartin, Chris 11:15
Yep.
Julie Cole 11:16
But I also don't like.
I'm not one of those who puts like tracking apps on my kids because I don't, you know, like, I think teenagers should go and experiment and do things.
McMartin, Chris 11:26
Yeah, have fun.
Julie Cole 11:26
And I don't wanna know where.
McMartin, Chris 11:27
Explore.
Julie Cole 11:27
Yeah.
Do your thing and I know if the Shiite hits the fan, I'm gonna hear about it like, I know like that's that's how it goes.
McMartin, Chris 11:28
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Julie Cole 11:35
And you know, I can.
McMartin, Chris 11:35
And sometimes I think we can know too much.
Julie Cole 11:38
100%.
McMartin, Chris 11:39
Like we can know too much right?
I so I have 4 kids, three of which are teenagers.
Julie Cole 11:42
100% yeah, yeah, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 11:44
Teenage boys, and sometimes we can know too much.
Like there's times where I don't wanna know.
Julie Cole 11:49
Sometimes I feel like they.
I feel like they tell me too much.
McMartin, Chris 11:53
Yeah.
Julie Cole 11:54
Me and my sisters were talking about this.
We're like we found the right balance of, like, hiding enough for mom and dad and then telling them when they needed to be told.
McMartin, Chris 11:59
Yeah.
Julie Cole 12:02
I'm like our kids have no judgement and they just tell us everything.
And then into the point where like for instance, one time SAS wanted to buy their friend, who's trans, but the parents won't let them be trans.
McMartin, Chris 12:05
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 12:14
A tuxedo, but the parents would only let the kid go to prom if they if the kid wore a dress.
So Spencer, like my kid, came to me and was like can we buy so-and-so a tux?
And I was like for sure.
But then they went on and told me that the parents weren't allowing them to, and I’m just ask me to buy the kid a tux.
McMartin, Chris 12:31
Yeah, don't.
Don't give me more info.
Julie Cole 12:33
Stop there, but now that I know like I mean, you know, like I'm not one to support homophobic parents anyway.
McMartin, Chris 12:35
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 12:38
So I don't care I’ll buy the kid a tux, but just let's operate on a need-to-know basis.
McMartin, Chris 12:41
Yeah.
Yes, I love that.
I love that.
I agree with you.
I think that we can know too much when it comes to the kids.
I think you know, I think back to when I was a teenager and like you said, you brought in mom and dad when you had to, but sometimes you just.
Julie Cole 12:50
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
McMartin, Chris 12:57
I'm going to my friend's house, and you know, you know.
Julie Cole 13:00
Like this is how they do the, this is how they do the learning and again that's OK.
But I know everybody's got different comfort levels.
I'm a little bit like the 70s called and they want their kids back and I'm like here they are.
McMartin, Chris 13:12
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 13:13
But it does again like.
Of course I like take care of them and all that jazz.
McMartin, Chris 13:18
Of course.
Julie Cole 13:18
But I do, you know.
But I do again like an example.
Once Posie and Spencer, where skiing they were 8 and 10 and they're on their own, and one of them had a fall, Posie had a fall.
So the 8-year-old was like I got to find a friendly stranger, which is a mom.
I've taught them.
You find a mom and then I'll find the ski help.
McMartin, Chris 13:32
Yeah.
Julie Cole 13:34
And then I'll ski down in the chalet and tell the parents and they weren't standing on the side of a hill phoning me saying, I don't know what to do Posie fell.
Like they figured it out, and I like providing those opportunities.
And that, honestly folks, is, you know, it does help me to balance all the things I need to balance as well, right?
McMartin, Chris 13:53
Absolutely cause you're not getting those 12, 15, 18, 20 phone calls throughout the day.
Julie Cole 13:59
Exactly.
Yeah, for nothing for nothing.
McMartin, Chris 14:00
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 14:03
Like figure it out, I don't need.
Yeah, you don't need to be calling me for this.
All the time.
There's a few other things too.
I mean I try to keep my standards nice and low.
McMartin, Chris 14:15
Explain. Explain.
Julie Cole 14:16
So I just, I just know how to prioritize.
So you know what, like Mabels in the summer is nuts, right?
Like we're getting the labels out the door.
All of that jazz and you know, I, I try to remember like, this isn't the time that I'm going to be, like, making gourmet meals.
This is and that's OK or like and I when I would bring home a new baby. Yes, we're ordering pizza, like toddlers on their gadgets too much.
They're watching too much blue and giving them hot dogs three nights a week.
McMartin, Chris 14:44
Yeah.
Julie Cole 14:45
Who cares?
McMartin, Chris 14:46
Yeah.
Julie Cole 14:46
It's for a very short amount of time and I gave up Mom guilt 4 kids ago.
Like it's just not worth it.
So when it's all too much, give yourself permission to just let it go.
Like, yeah, so they're watching too much of too much TV for this amount of time.
Like whatever.
And I found this through COVID too.
Like you know, I had my I had two kids in university gets sent home.
McMartin, Chris 15:04
Yes.
Julie Cole 15:08
I was doing a full floor renovation.
Then the kids are all home.
You guys all know we're all home schooling or whatever you call it, and Finn, because of his learning stuff, he needed somebody beside him all for every freaking lesson.
McMartin, Chris 15:18
Yeah.
Julie Cole 15:20
So luckily 5 older siblings and I could assign, but at that point, like I say to the teacher, we don't have the capacity like we will do math.
McMartin, Chris 15:22
Yeah.
Yes, yes.
Julie Cole 15:28
We will do language, but we are not doing a virtual tour of the San Diego Zoo and writing about an animal.
Absolutely not.
His phys-ed is jumping on the trampoline and swimming with his siblings in the pool like and I have no shame.
McMartin, Chris 15:34
Yeah.
Yeah.
Julie Cole 15:40
There's no shame in my game when I'm like too much, I don't have the capacity.
Like when I have a baby and people are like, oh, what could I give you?
McMartin, Chris 15:44
Yeah.
Julie Cole 15:46
I'm like, don't.
In fact, if you could just take the other kids to the park for the afternoon or drop me off meals for a week and then I would say thank you.
McMartin, Chris 15:50
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 15:55
And so you know, you're not getting a card.
This is my sincere thank you.
McMartin, Chris 15:58
Yeah, this is me saying thank you.
Julie Cole 15:59
This is all you got, and if they want to judge me or they care, I don't care.
McMartin, Chris 15:59
Yes, yes.
Julie Cole 16:04
Like, I just don't care.
McMartin, Chris 16:04
I love that, I love that, that is exactly someone said to me.
I, like I said, I have four children, and someone said to me when I had my last child, someone said what was the best gift you got?
Julie Cole 16:11
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 16:15
And I said the friend that had, like, Uber eats, sent the day I came home from the hospital after having a C-section with the new baby during, like, like, that's the best gift I got.
Julie Cole 16:19
Yeah.
Yeah.
100%.
McMartin, Chris 16:28
Dinner was there for all of us and I didn't have to do it.
And I didn’t have to think about it, that was the best gift.
Julie Cole 16:33
Ah, and also with your C sections.
I mean, you know, like it's April C-section awareness month.
I just did a live yesterday about it, I've had six sections, right?
McMartin, Chris 16:39
Yes.
Julie Cole 16:41
I'm coming home to 15-month-olds, 17 months.
It's most uncivilized.
McMartin, Chris 16:44
Yeah.
Julie Cole 16:45
So, you know, like I'm like, hey, come and do a load of laundry for me.
McMartin, Chris 16:48
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 16:49
That's beats any little sleeper you thought you'd send over, some balloons or some.
McMartin, Chris 16:52
Yes.
Julie Cole 16:54
I always said give me time, not stuff.
McMartin, Chris 16:56
Yes, I love that.
Julie Cole 16:56
So yeah, so I think that's what I mean by like the lowering your standards.
McMartin, Chris 16:58
I love that.
Yeah.
Julie Cole 17:01
It's just like knowing how to prioritize what really really matters, and of course you do need.
McMartin, Chris 17:07
Mm-hmm.
Julie Cole 17:09
You need to get help like I I was terrible.
Like I got, I got a nanny when my fifth kid turned one.
That was three kids too late.
Like it's it was.
McMartin, Chris 17:16
Yeah.
Julie Cole 17:18
It was too much.
It's too much and I'm sorry.
McMartin, Chris 17:20
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 17:21
Anybody who is a family or anybody who's working, like at the very least you should have somebody cleaning your house and I know you can say, oh, the money, whatever I don't care, budget for it.
Feed the kids more Craft dinner.
Every two weeks you need somebody coming and doing the floors, doing the toilets, doing that stuff, because that is cheaper than marriage therapy.
That is going to keep a little bit of sanity to everyone.
McMartin, Chris 17:39
Yeah.
Julie Cole 17:42
You need the help because otherwise you're just that nagging dragon and everybody hates when they feel that way.
McMartin, Chris 17:44
Yeah.
Julie Cole 17:48
Finally gets to a weekend and you're like you do this, you do this, you haven't done.
And then you're like, just spend all your time, wouldn’t you rather like go on a hike with your family.
McMartin, Chris 17:56
Yeah.
Julie Cole 17:56
Because then you feel better about the time that you are working, and you can't be with them.
You know, I do think though a lot of this about balancing and managing it too is also about managing expectations.
So, you know, I think a lot of people really romanticize this entrepreneurial life.
And I know a lot of you here understand that because it's a grind.
It's not all Ted talks and book deals, and you know, invitations to influence our events and things like that.
Sure, some of that comes.
But hey, I've been at this 21 years.
I'm in the line along time, right?
McMartin, Chris 18:31
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 18:31
But those early days, like managing expectations like you better, if you are starting in business and you have a spouse, you better make sure they understand that, you know, it looks like not going on family vacation.
It looks like not getting that new car.
It looks like not putting the kids to bed, pouring glass of wine at 8:00 o'clock and catching your favorite show on Netflix.
It looks a lot like making labels in a basement till 4:00 AM.
McMartin, Chris 18:55
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 18:56
You know, like that's what it looks like.
So I think managing those expectations, but also around the kids.
So for my kids.
When remember, I started 21 years ago, there was no social media.
There were no cell phones, so when all this came about, it actually, like it brought a lot of a lot of peace for me because I felt like the kids could reach me when they needed to, work could.
McMartin, Chris 19:11
Yep, yeah.
Julie Cole 19:23
Of course all that needs to be managed and a lot of us have learned that the hard way, right, because we were like kind of the early adopters and we're like, Oh my gosh, I'm on my phone all the time and I'm an entrepreneur.
McMartin, Chris 19:26
Yeah.
Julie Cole 19:32
But of course I'm on that on my phone because I want to get this customer.
So, you know, trying to manage all of that, but you know for my kids, if we are going to say into the hockey arena and keep in mind, I'm a recovering lawyer.
McMartin, Chris 19:35
Yeah.
Julie Cole 19:46
So I was a lawyer first.
I dropped out of that when we started Mabel’s Labels and, you know, I would say when we're going in the hockey arena, guys, I got to go on my phone twice.
I need to respond to an email, and I do have to take one phone call, but if you look up in the stands at any time, I'm doing one of those two things.
Other than that, I'm watching you and then I stuck to it because I do not want them getting goals and every time they look up, I'm on my phone.
McMartin, Chris 20:04
Yeah. Yeah.
Julie Cole 20:09
So I told them what the expectation was, let them know and then I stuck to it.
And you know what?
They there were no complaints because I could still go on, you know, the kindergarten trips to the apple orchard.
I still could do those things because I had this, and the kids knew that if I didn't have this, I'd be probably downtown Toronto working in a big law firm.
McMartin, Chris 20:22
Yep.
Yeah.
Julie Cole 20:28
And like, guess what I could be there for a lot of these things.
So managing the flexibility and the expectations around that I think was huge.
McMartin, Chris 20:36
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Julie Cole 20:38
Yeah. Yep.
McMartin, Chris 20:40
And I always say and we hear this all the time, like is work life balance a myth?
And I always say I don't know, and I'm interested to hear what you have to say about this, Julie, but I don't know that.
Julie Cole 20:47
Right.
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 20:53
I believe it's more balanced so much as it's right time, right place.
I like to think that, like you said, when I'm at the soccer tournament, when I'm at the dance classes that I'm 100% at that thing that I'm at.
Julie Cole 21:02
Yep.
McMartin, Chris 21:09
And when I’m at work, I'm 100% at work, and while I'm not an entrepreneur, I work remotely from home.
Julie Cole 21:12
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 21:17
So I also have the same sort of, you know?
Julie Cole 21:17
Right.
McMartin, Chris 21:20
Yeah, sometimes it means I'm bringing my phone with me, because I've got that call that I couldn't move, but I get to go to the dance recital or the dance class or whatever it is.
Julie Cole 21:24
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 21:28
So there is that flexibility, but I don't know that it's a balance so much as it's like a time blocking strategy.
Julie Cole 21:36
I agree.
You know, people are down on the balance thing, but I and you know that's like people say you can't have all those things at the same time.
And you know what?
I don't know.
I feel like I'm OK.
Like, I feel like I feel like I'm OK and I think what we need to do is, you know, I joked about, like, giving up mom guilt.
McMartin, Chris 21:46
Yeah.
Julie Cole 21:51
But I think once you start feeling if something sneaking in like that, then it's just a little trigger that maybe there's time to make a change.
McMartin, Chris 21:58
Hmm yeah.
Julie Cole 21:58
So maybe sit down and like, actually, I love doing like a every year about I take 2 weeks.
I kind of write down everything I'm doing, and that gives me a chance to really see.
McMartin, Chris 22:07
OK.
Julie Cole 22:10
OK, I'm spending too much time here.
That's what I figured out.
I was spending too much time giving out free advice.
McMartin, Chris 22:17
Ah yes.
Julie Cole 22:18
Right.
So I was like ohh I did that call.
I did that call.
I did that call, and then I realized hold on all these like young entrepreneurs are calling me saying can I pick your brain?
And I'm saying yes and then look into this.
I have humans to raise, and labels to make, so then what I did, Chris?
McMartin, Chris 22:30
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 22:33
You'll like this.
Then I put in a new boundary.
I'm like, I will spend half a day every six weeks having phone calls with people and they can book me.
McMartin, Chris 22:39
I love it.
Yes, yes.
Julie Cole 22:41
And guess what?
If they're not available that day, I don't say that's fine, I'll talk to you the next day.
I say that's OK, I’m ready again in six weeks.
Here's the next time.
McMartin, Chris 22:48
Yeah.
Julie Cole 22:49
So again I am still, it's not a no, it's a yes but, right?
McMartin, Chris 22:52
Yeah, yeah.
Here's the strategy, yeah.
Julie Cole 22:55
So I think that is good, doing a little time check on yourself like a couple weeks you see where you're wasting time.
McMartin, Chris 22:57
Hmm. Yes.
Julie Cole 23:02
You see where your gaps are.
It does help with your productivity, but then using those things if you're feeling a bit guilty, like oh, I don't feel like I'm turning up at work enough, I'm not turning up enough at all, so make the change.
Were the author of our own books here, right, especially as entrepreneurs and this too Chris for me was like, you know when you start a business you're in the unique position to create a culture that you want.
McMartin, Chris 23:13
Yes, yes.
Julie Cole 23:27
So you know, at Mabel’s Labels, you just like.
If you want to go to your kids Christmas concert, go like, you know, we built business plans during play dates and we're changing diapers and changing the world at the same time, right?
So I mean, there's no having to pretend something's wrong or like just do whatever you want to do it.
McMartin, Chris 23:40
Yeah.
Yeah.
Julie Cole 23:46
It's not about presenteeism, it isn't about butts on seats at office.
It's about meeting your goals.
Are you reaching your goals?
McMartin, Chris 23:54
Yeah.
Julie Cole 23:55
As long as you're reaching your goals where we're happy.
McMartin, Chris 23:58
I love that.
I love it.
I think it's so important.
I think it's so important and that really does build that culture.
You know that those individuals are happier, and happier teammates make for so much more productive teammates.
Julie Cole 24:08
Yeah.
Well, and that's good, oh100% and their entrepreneurial because they've got skin in the game.
McMartin, Chris 24:15
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 24:18
And then also as far as your bottom line goes, like you know how expensive it is to have a lot of turnover, right?
McMartin, Chris 24:27
Yes, yes.
Julie Cole 24:27
So this is great for retention as well because they come, they're happy, they stay.
McMartin, Chris 24:29
Yes.
Julie Cole 24:32
You know, they've got some flexibility, so it's good for business.
McMartin, Chris 24:37
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Julie Cole 24:38
And here's the other thing that was wild.
When COVID hit, and like all these companies were in a panic, what are we gonna do?
We just kind of kept doing what we're doing.
Everybody knows how to work remotely.
We're set up tech-wise.
We're already doing teams meetings.
So it was kind of.
McMartin, Chris 24:51
Yeah.
Julie Cole 24:51
I was watching everyone panic and we were just, like, interesting, interesting.
McMartin, Chris 24:56
Already set up for success.
Julie Cole 24:59
Uh-huh.
McMartin, Chris 25:00
I love it.
Julie Cole 25:00
Yeah, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 25:00
I love it.
You talked earlier, Julie, and you gave us some really good examples.
Like I'm, you know, taking notes for myself, as your goal Mom status for me.
And about delegation and that's something I know that I need to work on personally and professionally.
Julie Cole 25:14
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 25:16
Is that delegation.
Julie Cole 25:18
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 25:19
So you talked about it at home with everybody's got a job.
Everybody helps, everybody jumps in.
Unloading the dishwasher, whatever it might be.
How do you transfer that over to the workplace?
What does that look like for you?
Like, how do you know when to delegate, who to delegate to?
Like, how do you make those decisions?
Julie Cole 25:35
Look, it's a tough one, so let me tell you like when we, and there are different stages that are more difficult.
McMartin, Chris 25:37
Yeah.
Hmm.
Julie Cole 25:42
So when we just started Mabel's Labels it started with three cofounders, we were in the basement.
You know, it was, you know, we were doing all the things and that was fine.
McMartin, Chris 25:49
Yep.
Julie Cole 25:51
And we felt very much like in control and this is the thing entrepreneurs can be a little control freaky, right?
It's hard to hard to hand things over because it's your baby.
It's like dropping your kid off at daycare and you're like, are they gonna manage this? I know how to manage this.
McMartin, Chris 26:00
Yeah.
Julie Cole 26:03
So our first kind of employees were more like worker B types, like we had a few people answering the phone.
McMartin, Chris 26:04
Yeah.
Julie Cole 26:12
We had people making labels, but then you know, you reach your next stage of growth, and we have higher managers, and what that means is that you have to hand over the reins and you gotta let them start making decisions.
And it's hard.
It's hard not to micromanage them, but you can't.
You have to let them learn.
Of course you can coach, and you can mentor and all that stuff, but if you micromanage them, they will leave.
McMartin, Chris 26:34
Yeah.
Julie Cole 26:38
And also, if you're doing that, and if you're still in the weeds, if you're still putting out those brush fires everyday you're working so hard in the business, you're not working on the business, and that means nobody is.
McMartin, Chris 26:49
Yeah.
Julie Cole 26:51
So you need to remind yourself as a leader, that if you are going to grow this business and you're going to do what needs to be done to make sure that it's still profitable, so that you still have employees. Like once we got employees, I'm like now people are relying on us, they're feeding their families.
McMartin, Chris 27:05
Yes, yes.
Julie Cole 27:06
Like to me, that was an incredible big responsibility, like a big weight.
McMartin, Chris 27:09
Yes.
Julie Cole 27:11
So then I felt like it made it easier to delegate once you understood that in doing that and sharing that, then you were also providing people with opportunities to grow their leadership, right.
McMartin, Chris 27:24
Yes.
Julie Cole 27:25
And it gave you an opportunity to clear that space, to do the things that you needed to do.
It's not easy.
I'm not gonna lie, and it takes practice.
McMartin, Chris 27:31
Yeah.
Julie Cole 27:33
You're not going to get it right all the time.
You're just practice, practice, practice and then again, you know, maybe at work you do the do-not do list.
You know, what are you doing that you can be passing on to somebody that might be again, if you just, you really, really need to value your time.
McMartin, Chris 27:42
Yes, yes.
I love that.
I love that.
Julie Cole 27:51
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 27:52
And I love that you share that it's not easy.
Do you still find it not easy?
It's there's still moments where you're like, ooh.
Julie Cole 27:56
I find it very easy.
McMartin, Chris 27:59
Oh, it’s easy now.
Anything you did to get there?
Anything you did that was changing for you, that was like, OK, I'm good at this now.
Julie Cole 28:06
Yeah, I think you know we have 50 full-time employees.
Everybody's got rules.
Umm, you know what?
We have a really strong set of core values at Mabel’s, and we hire and fire by them and they're integrated into our interview questions.
So our team, I just, they're amazing and I trust them so much.
And when you trust, it's easy to let things go.
McMartin, Chris 28:29
Hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 28:31
So I think, and you know what, sometimes trust takes practice too.
Like that can be a you thing, if you don't trust people, it could be a you thing.
McMartin, Chris 28:35
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 28:38
So you've got to manage that as well, right?
McMartin, Chris 28:38
Yeah.
Julie Cole 28:40
There's lots of little puddles you can slip into, but I think by trusting and also by,
just appreciating that there are different horses for different courses, right?
So some employees are going to be right for that early stage.
McMartin, Chris 28:52
Yeah.
Julie Cole 28:54
Some are going to be right for that mid-stage and like right now I haven't made a label in 10-15 years, and I shouldn't know how to make a label. If I was still making labels in my sister's basement 21 years later.
McMartin, Chris 29:00
Yeah.
Yeah.
Julie Cole 29:07
This is a colossal fail.
So you need to actually know also creating and creating your business plan you need to be reflecting on that thing and be like OK, what do I want this to look like in two years?
McMartin, Chris 29:09
Yeah.
Yeah.
Julie Cole 29:19
Because unpopular opinion.
Sometimes quitting is for winners.
Sometimes you need to know when you're like, OK, I'm still in the basement.
This is not.
Maybe it's time to move on and start your next venture.
McMartin, Chris 29:31
Yeah.
Julie Cole 29:32
And everybody’s always like don’t quit, don’t give up and I agree.
But, there's gotta be a balance there.
McMartin, Chris 29:34
Yeah.
Julie Cole 29:36
You need to be checking with mentors.
McMartin, Chris 29:37
Yeah.
Julie Cole 29:38
You gotta be checking in with friends and whoever is there in your community and that's what's great about things like this because I always say your network is your net worth, right?
McMartin, Chris 29:40
Yep.
Yeah.
Julie Cole 29:48
Like you have to be talking to people because the things when our brain gremlins when being an entrepreneur is very lonely, a solo entrepreneur and your brain gremlins get in there and they're like, what are you doing?
Why do you think you can do this?
You need people around to be like you need to squash those brain gremlins because they are wrong, right?
McMartin, Chris 30:01
Yeah.
Yeah.
Julie Cole 30:06
So there's yeah, there's a real balance to it, for sure, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 30:10
For sure, you must have tons like you said.
You know, depending on your community, you must have some really great you know whether you call the mentors, advisors, whatever it is, and that could be professionals that could be friends and family, that could be whatever it is.
What was the best piece of advice you ever got from a mentor and advisor, something that's stuck with you?
Julie Cole 30:31
Oh, oh, that's a great one.
Ohh gosh, there's been so many, but I'm gonna tell you.
McMartin, Chris 30:38
Oh, I bet.
Julie Cole 30:39
Yeah, there's been so many.
But I'm gonna tell you something that I find really valuable right now in, in this stage.
And that is that I have actually probably for the last 10 years, I have like more like a peer mentor group and it's about seven of us and we are all extremely busy and we're all in similar but non-competing industries and we meet once a month and about once a year we go to one of the our cottages or whatever and you know we go through what are you know what are our wins, what are our challenges.
McMartin, Chris 30:51
Hmm.
Julie Cole 31:13
We brainstorm for each other.
McMartin, Chris 31:14
Hmm.
Julie Cole 31:15
We don't just blow smoke.
I find that a lot of these things just are like, you're the best.
Like I get called out on shit.
McMartin, Chris 31:20
Yeah.
Julie Cole 31:21
It's awesome.
You know, like I left my ego out the door many moons ago.
McMartin, Chris 31:22
Yeah.
I think that's great.
Julie Cole 31:28
My grandma, my grandma.
I remember my grandma.
I've got this amazing grandma.
She's dead now.
She was honoring one when she died, and as she used to say, oh, when you have a baby, it just leave your dignity at the door.
And I'm like when you when you start a business, you just leave your ego at the door.
McMartin, Chris 31:38
Yeah.
I love that.
I love that.
You have to have those individuals that you can, you know, really depend on to give you real, to give you real, yeah.
Julie Cole 31:47
Yeah.
I'll tell you what.
You know what?
And like when you, you know, ask about this mentors like there have been so many.
But I have to say, like this grandmother of mine, like you guys.
She was one of 21 kids, born Irish Catholic and Ireland, moved to Canada in 1950, had nine kids, but was like the biggest like feminist.
McMartin, Chris 32:05
Yeah. Yep.
Julie Cole 32:14
Like we started Mabel's Labels, she was like my girls can do this.
She was when we won the Women Entrepreneur of Canada Award, she was in that limo in Toronto at that red carpet event going mhm.
McMartin, Chris 32:24
Amazing.
Julie Cole 32:25
She was unreal, and there was something that she said to me that I will share that I think was is pretty brilliant, and it was a way that she always kept us, all of us really elevated and feeling special, but also keeping is very humble.
And what she would say is Julie, you're as good as the rest of them and better than none.
McMartin, Chris 32:39
Hmm.
I love that.
Julie Cole 32:50
And that just really stuck.
McMartin, Chris 32:50
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 32:52
So I can do anything and so can anyone else like.
Yeah, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 32:57
Ohh, I think that's fantastic.
Julie Cole 32:58
Good old, grandma.
McMartin, Chris 32:58
I think that's fantastic.
It's good advice.
I think that mentors are important.
Julie Cole 33:00
Yeah, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 33:02
Both you know, actual setup mentorship programs like we have with the Scotiabank Women Initiative, but also like you said, those peer mentors really important.
Julie Cole 33:08
Yeah.
And I do have formal ones.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's again, like at this stage, right?
Like I'm an old hag now, right?
But you know I do.
I have formal, you know, mentoring relationships and with, you know, and it's great like we have a one-on-one monthly and that sort of thing, and it is good because also that fills my bucket.
McMartin, Chris 33:23
Yep.
Yeah.
Julie Cole 33:31
I love seeing what people, and I do a lot of judging.
I do a lot of judging for like I judge the total Mom Pitch Award.
McMartin, Chris 33:34
Yes.
Julie Cole 33:37
The YWCA Women of Distinction Award the Revolution Her Award.
We were just that.
McMartin, Chris 33:42
Yes, yes.
Julie Cole 33:43
What else?
There's more.
There's more.
Oh, I know.
The Canadian Women Entrepreneurs Award, anyway, so I love it.
McMartin, Chris 33:47
Yes.
Julie Cole 33:50
Like every time, I'm like, why did I say yes to this?
But I love.
McMartin, Chris 33:52
Yeah.
Julie Cole 33:53
I love.
Because it's time consuming, man.
McMartin, Chris 33:55
It is.
It's very time consuming.
Julie Cole 33:56
Because you got to read those and like you read them all.
McMartin, Chris 33:58
Yeah.
Julie Cole 33:58
Like what if this was my application?
I would want the judge putting this much time, so it does take a lot of time, but I really, I mean I just get so jazzed about what women are creating.
McMartin, Chris 34:00
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 34:07
I know this is what keeps you going, Chris.
McMartin, Chris 34:09
Yeah, ohh keeps me going.
Julie Cole 34:10
Like this. Right?
McMartin, Chris 34:11
I I too, yeah, I too have been a judge for a lot of those awards.
Julie Cole 34:11
Like that's yeah.
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 34:15
And same with you.
I put so much time into it because I think ohh my God the time they have put and if it were me, if it were me putting this time, and like and the ideas that they have, and that anyways it just blows me away.
Julie Cole 34:17
I know. Uh-huh.
It's so it's so motivating.
So I mean for this stage, yes, I don't have a like mentor relationship.
McMartin, Chris 34:29
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 34:33
I am a mentor, and I have my peer mentor, but I just feel like I get so much out of all the young entrepreneurs, especially those women in those moms who are like and creating businesses at phenomenal rates.
McMartin, Chris 34:34
Yep, yeah.
Yeah.
Julie Cole 34:43
And like, I mean, what was the percentage?
It was like 65% of women through COVID like had a slide hustle like, we are extremely entrepreneurial.
McMartin, Chris 34:48
Yeah.
Yeah, actually that brings me to a good question, one that we received from one of our registrants about a side hustle was, you know, and I know I can picture your answer being like ah one.
Julie Cole 34:54
OK.
Yeah, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 35:04
But if you know if you had someone come to you and say like I've got an idea, I want to start with this side hustle.
Julie Cole 35:09
Yep.
McMartin, Chris 35:10
What is step one?
What is step one?
Like, where do I start?
Julie Cole 35:13
Right I think really step one is doing your research.
So you're gonna go scour the Internet, research companies that are maybe doing something similar or something close.
McMartin, Chris 35:25
Hmm yeah.
Julie Cole 35:26
You're gonna talk to everyone you know.
Do you have an accountant friend? Talk to them.
Again, going back to your network.
McMartin, Chris 35:31
Yeah.
Julie Cole 35:32
This is the thing we were not afraid of No’s.
And I say to my kids all the time No’s are free.
I had a kid call me yesterday and he wanted to talk to me about starting a company similar to mine and he asked a couple of questions and I’m like dude, you're virtually a competitor or want to be so I can't it's intellectual property.
He’s like no problem.
But I’m like I love that you asked because I can say no, I'm not telling you.
McMartin, Chris 35:51
Yeah, yeah, yes.
Julie Cole 35:54
And I say that all that.
So just ask the questions and go out and get yourself out there.
I mean, we're probably, you know, what do they say?
Preaching to the choir, you guys turned up today, right?
McMartin, Chris 36:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 36:05
So you're making connections.
You're finding people to talk to.
You're following up.
You're doing all the right things, so I would just be like.
And then find people like social media is really helpful because it's free like I mean other than time.
McMartin, Chris 36:16
Yeah.
Yeah, that's it. Yes.
Julie Cole 36:20
But you know, this is a great place.
Like if you find somebody who's doing something similar, non-competing and you don't know how to show up on social media, but you like the way they're doing, follow them.
Follow people they're following.
McMartin, Chris 36:29
Yeah.
Julie Cole 36:30
If you were starting a product that's a mom product, follow Mabel’s Labels.
Who are we connecting with?
What influencers are we working with?
And then you try, you know, no point in reinventing the wheel, right?
McMartin, Chris 36:36
Yes, yes.
Julie Cole 36:39
So I think there's absolutely, and then for those of you who want to be an entrepreneur, and you don't have that idea yet because people always like, how did you come up with the idea of Mabel’s Labels?
McMartin, Chris 36:41
Yeah.
Julie Cole 36:50
We were like there was a product missing from the market.
McMartin, Chris 36:51
Yeah.
Julie Cole 36:53
I mean people are using masking tape and permanent markers, so and so basically what we did and what I suggest you do is go through your day, find something that pisses you off, and fix it.
McMartin, Chris 36:54
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 37:04
That's all we did.
It's all we did.
Or make it prettier.
Find something ugly and make it prettier.
McMartin, Chris 37:08
Ohh yeah, that's big.
That's big.
Julie Cole 37:10
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 37:10
Yeah, something might be functional, but it doesn't mean that you like how it looks in your life, right? Yeah.
Julie Cole 37:12
Yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
Especially like the moms, the moms like with our kids like I know the mom market.
That is my market, which is, you know, your mom's become moms, usually in their 30s, they have university educations.
You need to know.
That's the other thing.
McMartin, Chris 37:29
Yeah.
Julie Cole 37:30
Research your customer like crazy.
McMartin, Chris 37:31
Yes.
Julie Cole 37:33
The more you know what your customer, like even set up a profile like we have names for our customers and this one has two kids and she lives in this city and her kids do these sports, and then this mom, she's in the like she lives in.
And we go by our like highest-selling states and then our lowest-selling.
Like create a profile of who your customer is so that you get to know them so so well.
McMartin, Chris 37:38
OK.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know who they are.
Julie Cole 37:56
Yeah, easier to sell them, when you know who they are.
McMartin, Chris 37:59
Absolutely.
Julie Cole 38:00
Yeah, and that was one of the advantages for us.
I mean, our market was us, like we are young moms, right?
McMartin, Chris 38:04
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Julie Cole 38:06
So we kind of.
McMartin, Chris 38:07
You were solving a problem that existed in your own life.
Julie Cole 38:09
Community.
McMartin, Chris 38:10
Yeah.
Julie Cole 38:10
Exactly, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 38:11
Yeah.
Yeah, that's amazing.
That's amazing.
And so when we were talking, you know, we've done a lot of talking about, you know, delegation how to balance work life.
You know your best time effective skills.
Julie Cole 38:25
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 38:25
I'm sure there's been times, though, that you've gotten yourself behind, whether it's at home or at work.
What does that look like?
How do you catch up?
How do you?
Well, you know, how do you keep your mental state appropriate?
Julie Cole 38:38
Yep.
McMartin, Chris 38:39
How do how do you bring yourself back up to where you feel you're in a good place?
Julie Cole 38:42
For sure.
Yeah, for sure.
You know, and I think we all define that differently and I think you know, there's always this conversation around having it all and sometimes we feel like if we don't have it all in means we're falling behind our peers and I try to remind people that what does that even mean?
McMartin, Chris 38:49
Hmm.
Yeah.
Julie Cole 39:00
Like, does that mean we have to be married or have 2 to 5 kids or have a business and have wine club with our ladies and go to hot yoga?
McMartin, Chris 39:01
Yeah.
Julie Cole 39:07
Like what does it even mean?
And I just tried to remind you that, you know, don't let society project onto you what that having it all means.
McMartin, Chris 39:16
Hmm.
Julie Cole 39:16
It's what you want.
Like I wanted to make Labels in a basement.
I wanted six kids.
I wanted this so you know, we all have different ways of defining it.
So when I feel like I'm falling behind in something else, I really ask myself, am I falling behind in my own view or in somebody else's view?
And if I am falling behind in my own view, then I need to make a change, right?
McMartin, Chris 39:37
Yeah.
Julie Cole 39:37
Again, that's what I need to do, so it'll be like OK, I need to like for instance, if I'm judging something and I have a deadline at midnight and I'm like I'm behind, I don't.
You know what?
Sometimes I'll be like I need a one-day extension, or I'll look at my week ahead and I time chunk.
What am I doing that can be moved around or put off to make space for this time?
McMartin, Chris 39:56
Mm-hmm.
Julie Cole 39:58
Time chunking is important.
I also use a few productivity tips.
My big one I try to live by is Eat the Frog, and that is do the thing I want to do least, first.
Because if you don’t it’s going to live rent free in your brain all day.
So if it's like if I have to write, if I want to write 1000 words for my book, maybe every day I get up at 6:00 AM and I do that.
If I wanna go to hot yoga, maybe it's 6:00 AM.
Maybe I've got an angry client or customer, I don't wanna call them back, so I call them back first thing, so it's off my mind and not living rent free up there.
McMartin, Chris 40:30
Yeah.
Julie Cole 40:33
So I think you can use these little strategies to help you.
And like I said, about time chunking and turning off your notifications and doing things like that, that's going to help you keep on track.
And again, maybe doing that little time survey on yourself to see where you're losing time. Because you know what, you can scroll and scroll and scroll and then go look at your gadget and go to Instagram and see how much time you spend on it in a day.
McMartin, Chris 40:42
Yeah.
Yes.
Hmm.
Yeah.
No, it's eye-opening right, eye opening.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I love the, definitely the time chunking I have to do that for myself for sure, you know, go and see what you're spending your time on because like you said, I think that a lot of us would be surprised.
Julie Cole 41:05
Yeah, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 41:11
Maybe not surprised.
Maybe that's not the right word.
Julie Cole 41:13
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 41:14
A lot of us would be embarrassed.
Julie Cole 41:16
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 41:17
Maybe it's not surprised.
Maybe it's like ohh I'm spending my time doing that and maybe I shouldn't be.
Julie Cole 41:22
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 41:24
So I think that's really good advice.
I think that's really good advice.
You mentioned about, I love the Eating the Frog.
I learned that as a young advisor I had this file that I was just dreading, dreading working on.
Julie Cole 41:33
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 41:36
It was complicated.
I knew it was probably going to be a decline with angry clients, and doesn't it just give you that inspiration when you do it.
Like you're done and you're like now I can do anything because I did the hardest thing.
Julie Cole 41:48
Yes.
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 41:51
So now everything else is not that hard.
Julie Cole 41:52
Yes, exactly.
And people tend to procrastinate the tough stuff and it's just not.
McMartin, Chris 41:54
And yeah, yes, yes.
Julie Cole 41:58
It's just not effective.
If you're like us and you have a lot to get done in a day, yeah.
Just get her done.
McMartin, Chris 42:06
Yeah.
Is there any, you know, we talked about technology and social media, is there any technology or apps or anything that you're using lately that is for your productivity, for your there you know for your effectiveness that you're really liking and enjoying that's helpful to you?
Julie Cole 42:10
From a tech perspective, I mean we use like some, you know, just calendar apps and things like that.
McMartin, Chris 42:30
Yep, yeah.
Julie Cole 42:30
But it's, but if you want some really good tips.
I love, love, love a woman named Anne Gomez, who's in Toronto, and she recently wrote a book.
I'm sure I've got it around here somewhere, actually I just had to clean up because I've got a full day.
We're shooting all these Mabel’s Labels ads here in my house tomorrow, oh the cleaning that has to be done.
McMartin, Chris 42:49
Ohh.
Julie Cole 42:51
Anyway, she's from Clear Concept I believe is your company and I forget what her book is called, but Anne Gomez, her most recent book and it is full of awesome productivity tips for busy women.
McMartin, Chris 42:55
OK.
OK.
Julie Cole 43:05
I love it.
McMartin, Chris 43:05
Amazing.
Julie Cole 43:06
I love it.
Yeah, we actually had her years ago come into me Mabel’s Labels and work with all of us.
McMartin, Chris 43:12
Oh, fantastic, yeah.
Julie Cole 43:13
And yeah, she's just been a friend and ally ever since. Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 43:16
Amazing.
That's fantastic.
I'm gonna put it out there.
I've got the opportunity to ask so many questions to Julie, but if there's anyone who's on the line that would like to come off mute and ask Julie a question, please feel free to raise your virtual hands.
Julie Cole 43:20
OK.
McMartin, Chris 43:30
Or if you're more comfortable and prefer to write it in the chat, then definitely do so.
I do see that there was some questions about Scotiabank's mentorship program.
We will answer those definitely in the chat, but I want to make sure that we get the opportunity to answer all the questions to Julie.
So lots of great comments in the chat, Julie that I'm reading through, wonderful.
Loved your network is net worth, that got a lot of loves and likes for sure.
Got a question here.
Looking back, what's the most valuable lesson that you learned that guided your approach to life and business?
Julie Cole 44:09
Oh wow.
I think maybe.
Maybe one of the things is that you need to really get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
McMartin, Chris 44:21
Oh, that's a good one.
Julie Cole 44:23
Because what happens, yeah, like when we started our business, we're like, OK, we know exactly what we're doing now.
We've got this and then and then you have some growth, right.
McMartin, Chris 44:28
Yeah.
Julie Cole 44:31
And I remember once we like 8 employees were like, does anyone know anything about HR no?
McMartin, Chris 44:31
Yeah.
Julie Cole 44:35
OK.
We better take some courses and hire like a contractor.
Remember, contractors are entrepreneurs best friend.
Because
t's not a full hire, you can contract somebody to come in and do a couple hires for you and write some policy, right?
So keep that in mind.
McMartin, Chris 44:47
Love that, yeah.
Julie Cole 44:48
And also, entrepreneurs are terrible, sidelining here for a second, about it almost goes back to your delegation thing.
We feel like we wanna do everything ourselves, right, but don't.
McMartin, Chris 44:57
Hmm.
Julie Cole 45:00
Because if you want to spend a week doing your taxes, then you're not.
McMartin, Chris 45:03
Yeah.
Julie Cole 45:04
You could hire somebody to do that and they’re the expert.
McMartin, Chris 45:06
Yeah.
Julie Cole 45:07
They'll do it in 20 minutes and you're spending a week when you should be building your business, right?
McMartin, Chris 45:08
Yeah.
Julie Cole 45:12
So just make sure you're delegating correctly around that stuff too, because we tend to want to do all the things ourselves.
So yeah, and then you get to next stage of growth and you learn a whole bunch of new things.
And I do think in life as well, when you get a little bit too comfortable, you need to push yourself to be a little uncomfortable.
McMartin, Chris 45:25
Hmm.
Julie Cole 45:31
Like that kind of thing.
McMartin, Chris 45:33
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 45:34
You know, if you're the smartest person in the room, maybe find a new room, you know, challenge yourself, right?
McMartin, Chris 45:36
Yes, yes.
Yeah.
Julie Cole 45:39
So I think, and you know, it's so funny how I found that business and life parallels because I even found that with my kids.
I'm like, I know how to do babies.
I got babies and then I'm like, now I have preschoolers now.
McMartin, Chris 45:50
Yeah.
Julie Cole 45:50
Now I've got teenagers I gotta unlearn and relearn everything, right?
McMartin, Chris 45:53
Yes, yes.
Julie Cole 45:54
So it's so funny, like the growth of your business and the growth of your family is just, you just feel like you're the expert for one minute, a hot minute and then you're not again.
McMartin, Chris 46:02
Yes.
Yeah, it's so true.
It's so true.
Julie Cole 46:06
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 46:06
I've been asked in the past, you know, several times.
Ohh, what's the most difficult stage?
Cause I've got rate from 19 down to four.
Julie Cole 46:11
Yeah.
Right, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 46:13
What's the most difficult stage?
And I'm like, no, no, they're different difficults.
Like it's not a more difficult stage.
Julie Cole 46:17
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 46:20
It's like this was really hard when they were infants.
Julie Cole 46:20
Yeah, it's just different.
Yeah, yes, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 46:23
This was really hard when they were, you know, middle schoolers.
This is really hard now that they're young adults like there's, you know, you just got, like you said, you're not the expert anymore and you gotta learn what it's gotta be.
Julie Cole 46:34
I actually had a little laugh.
It was Easter weekend, I guess and a bunch were home and I just didn't have Posie Posie's in Australia at the moment.
But I had five of them at home.
And they just kind of like the youngest is turning 15 on Friday.
So they're getting old, right?
McMartin, Chris 46:49
Yeah.
Julie Cole 46:49
And they just, like, do.
They're so like connected with each other and they have like, you know, let's all they are, they have the this Minecraft server, so they all jump on their laptops and then they all are like, OK, let's go up to the Corey, grab the dog and I said to Mike I said, I feel like I kind of walk around here like an outdated CEO.
McMartin, Chris 46:59
Yep.
Julie Cole 47:09
Like I like.
McMartin, Chris 47:10
Yeah.
Julie Cole 47:10
It's like I go to the office every day with my newspaper just to feel important.
And they're like, yeah, we're kind of our own ecosystem, mom.
McMartin, Chris 47:18
Yeah, yeah, we've got this.
Yeah, we've got this. Yeah.
Julie Cole 47:21
Yeah.
Like I'm kind of like, what do I do other than buy a crap load of groceries and like.
So funny.
McMartin, Chris 47:27
Yeah, right.
Julie Cole 47:29
So fun, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 47:29
I say that all the time I say that all the time we go, we go and do obviously because we have three teenagers and a younger one.
Julie Cole 47:35
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 47:36
The younger ones, usually with us and but our teenagers, you know, I'm doing all the check-ins.
Julie Cole 47:38
Yes.
McMartin, Chris 47:41
Is everybody OK?
Julie Cole 47:41
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 47:42
Did everybody get to work?
Did everywhere get where they needed to go.
They're like mom, like, we've got this.
Julie Cole 47:46
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 47:47
Can you stop?
Like we're we got it.
Julie Cole 47:48
And one thing I've really learned about teenagers is I really, like I meet them where they are.
So, you know, I don't try to drag them into my stuff.
McMartin, Chris 47:53
Hmm.
Julie Cole 47:56
So one of my teens really wanted me to watch Breaking Bad.
It was his favorite show.
So I suffered through all of Breaking Bad.
McMartin, Chris 48:02
Yeah.
Julie Cole 48:05
And like the other night mom, do you wanna watch me play Fortnite?
I'm like no.
Of course I do, honey.
McMartin, Chris 48:11
Yeah.
Julie Cole 48:11
Let's watch you play Fortnite.
McMartin, Chris 48:15
Yeah.
Julie Cole 48:15
But that's alright.
Meet them where they are, right.
Then they will just keep telling you things you don't want to hear.
McMartin, Chris 48:18
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's it.
That's it.
Exactly.
That's it exactly.
Julie Cole 48:25
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 48:26
We've got a question in the chat, Julie, about impostor syndrome, and I know I've had the pleasure of hearing you talk about this before, but the question is specifically, do you yourself struggle with impostor syndrome?
And do you have tips for overcoming and or getting past it.
Julie Cole 48:38
Right.
Right.
I guess a couple things I would say is that I don't really have it.
And the reason is because, and I want you guys to remember this too for yourselves.
I was in that basement making labels at 2:00 AM.
McMartin, Chris 48:59
Yep.
Julie Cole 48:59
I deserve to be here.
I've worked my ringer off like I deserve a seat at the table, and so do you.
McMartin, Chris 49:01
Yeah.
Julie Cole 49:05
So when you start having those doubts, you need to tell yourself no.
I deserve this as much or more than anyone else out there.
I have been doing the work.
I'm the one who turns up and does the things, I belong here, so I do feel it's interesting how the imposter syndrome seems to apply mostly to women when they again, it feels very gendered.
McMartin, Chris 49:15
Hmm.
Hmm.
Julie Cole 49:27
And I just want you to challenge those thoughts when they come in and sometimes there are things I think that you can do.
I think you know comparison is the thief of joy.
I know that it's very hard, you know?
McMartin, Chris 49:37
Yes.
Julie Cole 49:39
You see other entrepreneurs and you're like their business is going so well.
They seem to be doing great.
Look, they were able to go on a vacation or look their kids are always clean.
I feel like you need to curate a social media feed that that is good for your mental health.
McMartin, Chris 49:52
Hmm yeah.
Julie Cole 49:53
So if somebody's making you feel like their life is perfect and it makes you feel like, you know you shouldn't feel that way, but if you do, you can unfollow.
You can just do those things, do things that will protect your mental health.
McMartin, Chris 50:02
Yeah.
Julie Cole 50:06
I actually unfollowed people who complain about parenting too much because it kind of brings me down, you know, like I'm like, why?
McMartin, Chris 50:10
Ohh yes yeah.
Julie Cole 50:13
Why aren't these people enjoying your kids?
Like you know, I know it's done and fun and just and I poke fun at parenting all the time, but you know, sometimes I just feel like just doesn't make me feel good to see this person kind of complaining about her kids all the time.
So I'm just not going to follow, because you gotta do what works for you.
McMartin, Chris 50:26
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 50:31
So I think you know by doing little protective boundary things like curating your social media feed, being with the right people like you know, I always say, like Babe Ruth said the loudest, the loudest boos come from the cheapest seats.
McMartin, Chris 50:31
Yes.
Julie Cole 50:46
If people are booing you, like, make sure you're having people in your circle who are cheerleading you.
I mean, we all have those people who like, I've got them too.
Like I can see on my Facebook, friends who will like content about my kids, but would never like if I won an award or my book got bestselling.
McMartin, Chris 51:02
Right, right.
Yes, yes.
Julie Cole 51:04
And I'm like, this is interesting, like, and I don't care necessarily, but I notice.
McMartin, Chris 51:04
No, but you notice, yes, yes.
Julie Cole 51:10
But I notice and in my mind, I say that's a them problem, not a me problem, because it is and you have to remember if somebody can't cheer you on, that's a them problem.
McMartin, Chris 51:14
I love that, yeah.
Julie Cole 51:21
And if it bothers you to the point that you don't, that if it bothers you enough, then you remove them.
McMartin, Chris 51:22
What's that saying? Yeah.
Julie Cole 51:27
I'm a big fan of the of the non-dramatic exit.
You don't have to announce you're leaving.
McMartin, Chris 51:31
I love.
Julie Cole 51:32
Just leave.
McMartin, Chris 51:33
Just leave.
Julie Cole 51:33
You're not.
McMartin, Chris 51:33
Just leave.
Julie Cole 51:34
You're not an airplane.
McMartin, Chris 51:34
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
I love that.
And what's that saying?
And I try and keep this in mind all the time.
Is that how you feel about me, is none of my business.
Julie Cole 51:45
That's right.
I think that's powerful.
Yeah. Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 51:47
Right.
Julie Cole 51:48
Your opinion of me is none of my business, and that is like when you can get to the point of not caring and like the fact of the matter is, if every person likes you, you're probably doing something wrong.
McMartin, Chris 51:51
Yeah.
That's fair.
Julie Cole 51:59
You know, I'm not for everyone.
McMartin, Chris 52:00
That's fair.
Julie Cole 52:01
That's OK.
McMartin, Chris 52:02
That's right.
I say all the time I say all the time I am a lot.
Julie Cole 52:03
Yeah, I'm not for everyone.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 52:06
I am a lot, but I that's OK.
That's OK.
I'm not for everybody.
I'm not for everybody and that's OK.
Julie Cole 52:11
That's right. That's OK.
McMartin, Chris 52:13
I still am authentic at all times, so yeah.
Julie Cole 52:13
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's the thing.
I mean, I don't have to be for everybody, you know?
McMartin, Chris 52:19
That's how I feel with you, Julie.
Julie Cole 52:19
That's. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well.
McMartin, Chris 52:21
Every time we've ever talked, every time I've seen you speak, you're very authentic.
And I love that.
And I think that that's why people love listening to what you have to say.
Julie Cole 52:30
Well, and I think that's like I would say that like the entrepreneurs on the line here is like that.
That's the one thing.
Like you're going to get copied, you're going to have like other businesses that rip you off.
McMartin, Chris 52:38
Hmm.
Julie Cole 52:41
Nobody can, be you.
Nobody can be you.
McMartin, Chris 52:42
Yes.
Julie Cole 52:43
That's the one thing.
Your personal brand and I know like for you know, with Mabel's Labels, the mommas, they can sniff out a fake, you know, they know the fakes.
McMartin, Chris 52:51
Yes, yes.
Julie Cole 52:53
So you know, just be yourself and they want to connect with.
They don't want to buy from nameless, faceless brands of others.
So you want to make sure that you are visible and that they do feel connected to you and that you're yourself.
McMartin, Chris 53:05
Yeah.
Julie Cole 53:06
And you know what?
And be authentic about your brand change is like, hey, I don't.
I'm not pushing around a triple stroller anymore.
I'm not pretending I do.
McMartin, Chris 53:14
Right.
Julie Cole 53:16
I'm not writing about diaper blowouts, because I don't have them, so you know, we have younger people, we have a guest bloggers come in who do talk about that stuff.
McMartin, Chris 53:17
Yeah.
Julie Cole 53:24
And I speak from the seasoned mom perspective, right.
McMartin, Chris 53:26
Yes.
Julie Cole 53:27
And that's OK.
I don't pretend that I'm still in that stage and I think that is a mistake.
McMartin, Chris 53:31
Right.
Julie Cole 53:31
It's OK for your personal brand to evolve, as long as you're transparent about it.
McMartin, Chris 53:35
Hmm.
Julie Cole 53:36
People will stay.
McMartin, Chris 53:36
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's great.
That's really great advice, really great advice and anything you would have done differently, Julie.
Julie Cole 53:40
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 53:44
Is there anything you look back and think, umm, I wish I would have done this differently?
Julie Cole 53:51
Well, you know what?
I'm gonna say there's probably like little things along the way, but just things like ohh well, maybe we should have launched that product.
McMartin, Chris 53:54
Yeah, fair.
Julie Cole 53:57
But sometimes launching a product was a good, like there were so many lessons in the mistakes, right?
McMartin, Chris 53:57
Yep.
Ohh yes important.
Julie Cole 54:03
I see there's two things.
Two big lessons, though.
McMartin, Chris 54:07
OK.
Julie Cole 54:09
One would be hire slow, fire fast.
I think it was very, we had a very hard time firing people in the early days, which is fair, right?
McMartin, Chris 54:12
Yeah for sure.
Julie Cole 54:17
Like firing people sucks.
If you sleep the night before you fire somebody, you are dead inside.
McMartin, Chris 54:21
Yeah.
Julie Cole 54:21
But at this, at the same time, you know, I remember we had somebody hang around probably a year too long.
And you know, the teammates don't want them fired, but they do want to see them gone and they bring down morale and they're a waste of money, and you're not doing them a favor by holding on to them.
McMartin, Chris 54:28
Yep, yeah.
Julie Cole 54:38
So you know what?
Once we started like hiring and firing by our core values, it was like you know what?
No.
So that was something, a real lesson was not to let people hang around too long who aren't a fit.
McMartin, Chris 54:48
Yeah.
Julie Cole 54:50
That would be one big one.
The second big one was, you know, autopsying every project because we found in the early days, we launched a product and then you know we'd have mistakes.
And then we launched product.
We'd be like, Oh my God, we did the same mistakes.
So now after every back-to-school season, every product launch, everything we do, everyone who touches the project, does the autopsy, and then every time we go to do a new project, we go through our autopsies and make sure we've learned because you know what?
McMartin, Chris 55:04
OK. Yeah.
Julie Cole 55:17
If you learn from your mistakes, then they're valuable.
McMartin, Chris 55:20
Yes, yes.
Julie Cole 55:20
It was.
If you're not learning from them, it's a problem.
McMartin, Chris 55:22
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 55:23
So yeah, I would say those were a big ones, hire slow, fire fast, and autopsying, you know, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 55:29
Amazing.
Amazing.
I'm gonna go with my very last question.
Julie, I will urge you to, when you have a moment to read through the comments the comments are you know nothing but thank you, thank you, thank you.
Julie Cole 55:42
Aw.
McMartin, Chris 55:43
And your, you know, fantastic.
You've given wonderful, valuable, really actionable tips and tricks to our entrepreneurs and to myself as not an entrepreneur, and I highly encourage, we will also put a link to your book because I highly encourage everyone should read it.
Absolutely.
But my last question is always the same to everyone because I do believe that starting your day out on the right foot is important, especially for those like you, like me, who are crazy busy and need to start out with full energy.
Is there something you do every day when you get up in the morning?
That means this is going to be a good day.
Julie Cole 56:21
That's a really good question.
I don't think there is one more one specific thing.
I think I just pop out of bed and I'm like, OK, let's go.
Let's go do this thing.
McMartin, Chris 56:31
So positive attitude.
That's it.
That's yeah.
Julie Cole 56:34
And yeah, you know what?
And you know this, this kind of goes to that, I'm not a complainer.
And I'm not saying like I'm toxically positive, and like I think it's fine have a good old rant with your pals and whatever but I don't complain about things, like I don't say I'm tired because being tired has never gotten me more rest or a bed has magically appeared or anything like that.
McMartin, Chris 56:47
Yep.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 56:55
If I'm tired then I need to make a change.
McMartin, Chris 56:58
Yep.
Julie Cole 56:58
Or oh, I'm so busy.
I don't, who isn't?
I love when people say that to me.
McMartin, Chris 57:01
Yeah.
Julie Cole 57:03
I'm like, you know, who your audience is here.
Like you're so busy.
McMartin, Chris 57:05
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 57:07
So I just when I feel like I, I'm just more proactive.
So I guess when I get up, I think, OK, how am I going to proactively face this day?
And if there's something wrong, how am I gonna fix it rather than just whinge about it?
McMartin, Chris 57:19
Yeah.
Julie Cole 57:20
And quite frankly, I think people who complain about like being tired and busy and that sort of thing, they're just so boring.
I find it so boring.
I don't want to share space with you and honestly, this parenting thing is such a role modeling gig.
McMartin, Chris 57:28
That's fair, yeah.
Julie Cole 57:32
I don't want whiny, complaining kids, so I don't whine and complain because then they don't like.
McMartin, Chris 57:34
Fair statement.
Yeah, yeah.
Julie Cole 57:38
We can teach our kids all we want.
It is a role modeling game, I'm telling you.
McMartin, Chris 57:42
It is.
It is 100% it is.
Julie Cole 57:43
Yeah, yeah.
McMartin, Chris 57:45
I agree with you whole heartedly.
I agree with you.
We're going through, you know, our two oldest just starting working careers, right?
Julie Cole 57:53
OK.
McMartin, Chris 57:53
They're just, they're at that stage and I had one save the other day like, you know, I got up.
I didn't sleep good.
I was really tired, but pushing through mom, pushing through.
Julie Cole 58:01
Yeah. Good.
That's it.
McMartin, Chris 58:05
And immediately I thought that's it.
W
We did it, success.
Julie Cole 58:06
Yeah, yeah, love it.
McMartin, Chris 58:06
And so I agree with you, it's all about the role model game.
Julie Cole 58:11
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 58:12
I think it's important.
Well Julie, I can't thank you enough.
Julie Cole 58:13
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 58:14
This has been a really phenomenal conversation.
I've enjoyed every moment.
I have learned a ton, every time I speak to you, I learn something, and I'm always inspired.
So on behalf of the Scotiabank Women Initiative and all our entrepreneurs that joined us today.
Thank you so much for sharing with us.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
Julie Cole 58:33
Aw well thank you so much for having me gang.
I really appreciate it.
I'm going to go, where do I go to these comments?
McMartin, Chris 58:38
Well go in the chat.
They're all there.
Julie Cole 58:40
Yeah.
McMartin, Chris 58:40
Go and read them all.
Thank you everyone for joining today.
Have an excellent day.
Julie Cole 58:46
Thanks everyone.
McMartin, Chris 58:47
Thanks everyone.
